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Claiming land someone else has built on
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July 9, 2014
3:42 am
Gide
Sweden
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I recently spent a lot of time protecting a nearby NPC village, building a fence around it, lighting it up and leveling the ground, repairing the streets and so on, but i had not claimed the land with GP.

today when i returned to continue i noticed that someone else had claimed the whole village with GP leaving me standing like a fool.

i know i should probably have claimed it myself but didn't have the money for it.

Still it feels a bit rude and is it really ok to do that since i had built so much there?

July 9, 2014
2:01 pm
LightWarriorK
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I'm really sorry, Gide, but the village is lost to you.  GP is extremely cheap right now, and even voting on just two sites can give you enough blocks for a minimum 10x10 claim.  The warnings that were spamming at you every 30 blocks or so letting you know that you were building outside a Claim and were unprotected.  That's not only from grief, but also from anyone also making claims.

If you had placed even a minimum claim in the village, the Claim by the other player would not have been possible.  Most likely he would have backed off or talked to you about it.  Minimal claims can (and should) be used to reserve an area you plan on keeping.

As it is, yes, I'm sorry, but by building outside the protection of a GP Claim, you were essentially "trimming your neighbors' hedges," as the saying goes.  What you did in the village was not "yours," and is now theirs.

My recommendation is to speak with the individual who now owns the claim, and see if you can get your materials back that you had put into the village, like your fences and torches and etc.  I hope it all works out.

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
July 9, 2014
2:31 pm
Okarim
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Okay, now I am confused. You say that Gide's building outside a claim does not protect what he builds from being claimed by others. In other words, people can claim any and all unclaimed constructions. But a few days ago apsand6 wanted to claim a building someone hadn't protected, and was told not being claimed doesn't mean it's free game. So if this no longer is the case, or never was to begin with, could this please be expressed more clearly in the rules?

July 9, 2014
2:57 pm
LightWarriorK
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In this case it comes down to semantics.  There is a difference between an "improved village" and "someone's house."

But you're right, this sort of thing isn't very clear, and we'll try to clarify it as best as we can.

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
July 9, 2014
3:04 pm
Gide
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Yes i did get warnings that i was building outside my GP but in my naivety i didn't plan on claiming the village, i thought a village was a public place, for everyone to have access to. Still it feels like a strange and rude thing to do whereas i had altered so much in the village.

Never mind, I will talk to him, thanks for your reply. 

July 9, 2014
7:21 pm
Trip6s6i6x
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To be honest, I think OP and Okarim both bring up good arguements - at what point does modifying a structure make that 'your' structure? I mean if we're talking semantics here, it's all just blocks replacing other blocks anyway, whether it's stone or wood blocks replacing air blocks (building an actual structure), wood blocks replacing dirt blocks (creating the foundation of a building), gravel blocks replacing dirt blocks or grass blocks (fixing a road or making a path).. even dirt blocks replacing air blocks in the terraforming of a hill to be built upon later... at what point do these 'modifications' turn a previously public something (land untouched by another player that you found somewhere) into 'your' something? 

If i create a gravel path leading to a random spot and lay to me what is the foundation of a building i plan on making at some point soon (to someone else what is plainly an ugly random rectangle of cobblestone blocks on the dirt and nothing more).. but i don't actually protect the area.. by the old rules, if someone made any changes to that area, it would be griefing (since my previous block changes basically stake my claim to that area for me, whether protected by residence or not - that's how the rules have seen it before)... and taking this example even further, if someone residenced an area i staked out already via making block changes to it previously, that would before have also been considered a form of griefing via use of residence (claiming residence over an area another player was already building on).

Here's why I'm looking at this from the angle that i am: I've actually started building on a new server before by basically finding a random unused village, cleaning it up a bit (straightening the paths, etc), putting a door (nothing else, just a door) on one of the random shacks in it and using that as my new home base. At what point did one of those minor modifications flip the switch that turned that random village into 'my' village? (i can tell you at some point, it did, at least in my mind it did)

I'm sure handling situations like this in a case-by-case basis for awhile is fine, but this case does bring up that we could use some better clarification down the line on what qualifies as someone's build and what doesn't, as these situations are definitely going to come up again, and quite easily (one player sees an ugly random rectangle of stone on the ground in a random area, another player sees a foundation they just put down for their future house)...

Don't Panic -Douglas Adams
July 10, 2014
7:12 am
SlocumFamily
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Sorry about that Gide. I was GPing the area so I could trade with the villagers. I have subdivided the area around the villager and given you trust for that area so you can work on it as if it was yours. If you are still interested in building up the village and are interested, I would be willing to work with you on it.

July 10, 2014
8:08 am
Trip6s6i6x
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On closer view, i'm probably looking at this totally wrong (which i tend to do on first look at something). LWK also brings up a very good point that when dealing with pre-existing structures (like villages), it can be absolutely not easy to guage what is pre-formed and what is player-made/modified (and owned via having done so). My viewpoint was simply how do we tell the difference between the two and where do we draw the line where it crosses over from one to the other?

Obviously case-by-case would apply in this situation, and i didn't mean to infer that i was referring specifically to this incident -- i wasn't; my view was moreso an in-general question (this was just catalyst there).

In any case, both applicable parties here (of which i am not) have weighed in and are talking at this point and i'll butt out (as i should, lol).. just wanted to clarify what i was contributing to the discussion earlier as i didn't want it to be misconstrued or taken wrong... Kiss

Don't Panic -Douglas Adams
July 10, 2014
1:53 pm
Gide
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SlocumFamily said
Sorry about that Gide. I was GPing the area so I could trade with the villagers. I have subdivided the area around the villager and given you trust for that area so you can work on it as if it was yours. If you are still interested in building up the village and are interested, I would be willing to work with you on it.

Fair enough! I'm happy to do that!

July 11, 2014
7:57 am
Rangasp
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SlocumFamily said
Sorry about that Gide. I was GPing the area so I could trade with the villagers. I have subdivided the area around the villager and given you trust for that area so you can work on it as if it was yours. If you are still interested in building up the village and are interested, I would be willing to work with you on it.

You can trade with villagers outside of your claim

July 11, 2014
8:21 am
Okarim
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That should be possible yes, the lack of said ability appears to have been a default GP setting that got changed a while ago.

http://www.veterancraft.net/fo.....og/#p23877

July 11, 2014
3:46 pm
Gide
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Okarim said
That should be possible yes, the lack of said ability appears to have been a default GP setting that got changed a while ago.

http://www.veterancraft.net/fo.....og/#p23877

that explains it, i found it very confusing to give as reason to be able to trade with the villagers, since i had been trading a lot with them without a GP

July 12, 2014
7:35 pm
Emulated
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Since this topic has run it's course... locked.

Anthony Hughes

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