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Spigot 1.13
Topic Rating: +1 (1 votes) 
July 10, 2018
10:16 pm
frelling
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There is a lot to be said, but for now, I want to keep it short. Spigot 1.13 will contain significant changes. Not only for new features, but also how items, blocks, and entities are handled. While this was not new news, we underestimated the depth and impact of these changes. With 1.13 supposedly slated for release toward the end of July, we are shifting our focus away from a 1.12 upgrade and moving directly to 1.13.

I realize that this may cause more questions than those answered. Just keep in mind that we can do almost anything in regards as to what items, builds, etc. survive and/or make it into Arda. However, at the moment we are focused on more basic issues.

We need to get a 1.13 development server built on which we can test all our plugins. This is something that we are not very familiar with. Previously, we have always worked with pre-releases and releases, not previews. We are hoping that the mechanics are similar and that we will also be able to publish a preview version of Spigot for members to test, not unlike the current 1.12 test world.

However, it must be understood, that unlike releases, previews are subject to change without notice and not having the necessary preparations in place could cause additional work on our part – something we would like to avoid.

There are several external factors that are competing for my attention. Although I have recovered from a recent injury to my forearm that limited my ability to use a keyboard effectively – I have gotten good at one-handed typing to send emails, but I did not realize how much I used a mouse until I could not. Depending on certain actions over the next few weeks, I may also turn in my notice at work to pursue another endeavor. However, I will save those details for another time.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 12, 2018
9:18 pm
frelling
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I had always suspected this, but never bothered to verify. Although SpigotMC publishes a 1.13 preview of Bukkit, it does not do the same for CraftBukkit. Since both of these are the basis of the Spigot-API and Spigot-Server, it appears impossible to compile a Spigot Server via public means.

This good/bad news affects VC as follows. We will be able to test compile all our plugins as far as Bukkit/Spigot-API compatibility is concerned, allowing us to identify, fix, and update to e compatible with the new API specifications. However, we will not be able to compile a full server, which we would have used to run functional tests and/or provide a preview-version that members can log onto and play.

I will try to communicate with md5 to see if we can either: 1) sign our lives away and under the penalty of death to get private access to 1.13 previews of CraftBukkit and the remainder of Spigot build files; or, 2) at least have him send us a compiled version of a 1.13 Spigot server that we can use for testing, and if allowed, for experimentation by members.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 12, 2018
11:10 pm
frelling
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I just read a text from LWK informing me that Mojang will be releasing 1.13 on July 18, which would be in a little less than a week. Given that, we will nix the notion of trying to get a preview up before that and just focus on getting our plugins ready by compiling against the preview version of Bukkit 1.13.

This time around, we will make an attempt to be as bleeding edge as possible. As soon as Spigot pre-/releases a 1.13 version, we will deploy another test server. The existing 1.12 test server will continue to remain for regular use. I would like to caution that the 1.13 test server may be unstable. While members are encouraged to test and play with new features do not go overboard on your builds unless you can tolerate rollbacks or even wipes. I am not saying that such will happen, but it could happen.

We will use the 1.13 test server to deploy 3rd-party and VC plugins as they become ready. Most VC plugins should be ready, but a week is a lot of time for things to go pear-shaped.

At this point, we are not concerned with Shillings, claim blocks, items, and inventory. Our foremost and most important priority is to get all our plugins working well, 3rd-party plugins installed or replaced as needed. Without those, all other things are not worth considering.

As I mentioned in a post a few days ago, as far as currency, items, etc. we can do most anything, and chances are that we will be as accommodating as possible. So, for now, please hold off on any 1.13 questions unless they are related to game mechanics, plugins, and features. Thank you in advanced for keeping to the immediate topic.

While speaking of plugins; the most significant change in 1.13 is how Minecraft identifies items and blocks. Up till now, this has been handled by a tuple consisting of a material number (Block Id) and a damage value (DV). The latter used to select between different types or variants of the same block type (e.g. Oak Sapling, Birch Sapling, etc.).

Mojang has deprecated the use of these tuples in favorite of string identifiers. For example, instead of using (6,0) to represent an Oak Sapling, the will just use

oak_sapling

; similarly, (6,2) representing a Birch Sapling is replaced with

birch_sapling

. Metadata associated with potions, effects, and enchantments will continue to work in the same fashion, though some of the identifiers used by them may also be changed to text strings instead of numerical data.

The point of mentioning these (excessive) details, is that plugins relying heavily on ids and DV will have to be updated. This change is not late breaking news, so most plugins devs are prepared and have done as much as possible; however, those that have not will find themselves scrambling (hopefully) to put out a 1.13 version.

The 3rd-party plugins we use that rely heavily on Id/DV are DynMap, GriefPrevention, LogBlocks, mcMMO, and WorldEdit. VC plugins that depend on Id/DV are Alchemist, Diver, OpenBlocks, and Shoppes. Obviously, we expect that these will be updated before the release. Shoppes may take a little longer since we have to rework its item information storage system that we had tried to make 1.12 and 1.13 compatible. It should not be rocket science, but it is pervasive, increasing the likelihood of unwanted bugs.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 14, 2018
1:09 pm
frelling
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Good news. I was able to get our master plugin support library to compile with Bukkit 1.13. It only took a couple of tweaks and minor changes. Granted, just because it compiles, does not mean that it works. At this point we cannot run unit tests since our test framework is based on CraftBukkit, for which no preview edition exists. Still, it is a good feeling to have some validation of the pre-1.13 work we did over the past few months.

Still no pre-release or release of Spigot 1.13. I doubt it will be available before 7/18; though I expect that a pre-release will be available shortly thereafter.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 14, 2018
10:43 pm
vyscaryska
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Good to see you've really hit the ground running on this 1.13 thing. My only question involves the current test server. Will we still be able to move our collected materials to Arda?

 

Concerning the metadata change for every single item, I recently started casually playing on a different server that has had the unusual property of being up for seven years but never having a map reset. Consequently, this map has existed through every single major patch and bug change and hotfix that minecraft has ever had. So, you have some things like "alpha leaves", which are functionally a block which no longer exists in current minecraft, but still exists in game for these players because their map has never reset. The texture is the purple and black block that exists now which is the textureless version of any block in minecraft. 1.13 will remove these blocks from the game because any leaves will simply become their 1.13 equivalent. Fun fact, that server's memory is measured in terabytes, and costs thousands of dollars a month to host.

July 15, 2018
8:36 pm
frelling
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vyscaryska said
Good to see you've really hit the ground running on this 1.13 thing. My only question involves the current test server. Will we still be able to move our collected materials to Arda?

 

Short answer, yes. Keep in mind that things are subject to change; my current thinking is that the 1.12 test server world will still become a secondary world for Arda; albeit, it will only have 1.12 blocks and items. The 1.13 test server world will become the new OR or SR, depending on which one we current have running (been a while). In essence, Arda will have two active secondary worlds. Actually, it will have three active secondary worlds, since we always keep the old one up for another 30 days. Given the interest by members playing elsewhere for now, we will probably keep it around longer, to ensure that they can get their stuff from that world too.

Concerning the metadata change for every single item, I recently started casually playing on a different server that has had the unusual property of being up for seven years but never having a map reset. Consequently, this map has existed through every single major patch and bug change and hotfix that minecraft has ever had. So, you have some things like "alpha leaves", which are functionally a block which no longer exists in current minecraft, but still exists in game for these players because their map has never reset. The texture is the purple and black block that exists now which is the textureless version of any block in minecraft. 1.13 will remove these blocks from the game because any leaves will simply become their 1.13 equivalent. Fun fact, that server's memory is measured in terabytes, and costs thousands of dollars a month to host.

Seven years would be enough time to collect a lot of odd blocks. I am surprised that they did not convert them. We had a similar issue when we switched from Vetronia to Arda. Various leaves and sandstone block ids did not convert, requiring us to parse each world and change them ourselves. Since this did not fix items in inventory, we also defined a few custom recipes letting members convert their stash of older blocks.

Given the pervasive change in block ids, it will be interesting to see what the 1.13 upgrade will do. Spigot's Bukkit 1.13 API still provisions ids for older blocks, appropriately named such as LEGACY_WATER, LEGACY_FENCE, etc. We do intend to test the extensiveness of world updates and make any id changes deemed necessary.

Wow, TB memory -- drool, drool. Just for S&G's I checked with our data center, we could update any one of our three servers from 6/12-core, 64 GB to 24/48 core and 512 GB for an additional $600, each. They must be running multiple instances or VMs. A single Minecraft or Spgiot instance handling that many players to justify TB memory would just crawl :)

What is the name of server, I would be interested to check them out more. Maybe we can learn something from them.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 15, 2018
8:53 pm
frelling
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I got so absorbed in my previous reply that I forgot to mention that SpigotMC has released official pre-releases of 1.13, meaning that we can do full testing. Unfortunately, I am going to be out of town tomorrow on business; I will see what I can do from the hotel room.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 20, 2018
5:38 pm
frelling
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A quick update. We have been going balls to the wall getting everything ready for a pre-release of 1.13. Most of the VC plugins have been updates to support 1.13. Some require further tuning, but that can be done later on. Currently, we are review our 3rd-party plugins (e.g. LogBlock, mcMMO, GriefPrevention, etc.). This has been a bit of a challenge as most of them have not yet been updated.

We are going through each one of them to see how they react under 1.13. This is a very painstaking tasks. Of particular note is that PermissionsEx has no maintainer and will not be updated. The question we need to answer is whether we bring PermissionsEx in-house or switch to an active permissions plugin such as LuckyPerms. Either way, it is more work.

If things go well, we should be pushing out a 1.13-pre7 test server out sometime tomorrow. Please note, you will have to use the 1.13-pre7 client, not the 1.13 client, to connect to it.

Anyways, just throwing out a quick status update for those that were wondering what was going on -- back to the grind.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 20, 2018
8:25 pm
WallyBean
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Thanks for the update, will be sure to kick the tires once the 1.13 pre 7 test server is up and ready for players

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -unknown
July 22, 2018
9:01 am
frelling
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Another quick update. As mentioned previously, we are examining our third-party plugins as to their 1.13 "readiness." As suspected, some are moving forward and many have not yet. Likewise, some have tweaked versions that work "good enough" on Spigot's 1.13 community server.

Since our goal is to get a 1.13-pre7 server up and running in order to test our plugins, we cannot wait for the those to update. Those that are mostly unaffected or only require minor tweaks, we update ourselves and contribute the code back to their authors; hopefully helping them along a bit.

The show stopper at this point is GriefPrevention. While it works "good enough" with 1.13, it does not cover all item changes. We believe that GP is important enough to have at the onset and we have been working on its update so far. Once that is done, we will put together a test server configuration ready for members to explore.

As we have are deep diving into GP, we have realized that some of our own plugins may need some additional changes. If deemed important, they are updated immediately; otherwise, the issue(s) is added to our tracker and scheduled to be solved at a later point in time.

On a side note, normally LWK spends a considerable amount of time finding a good seed for our secondary worlds to ensure that the world includes all interesting features within reasonable proximity. Unfortunately, the Amidst application he uses currently crashes when trying to render 1.13 worlds. If anyone has found any good seeds playing with 1.13 or its previews, feel free to mention them. If not, we will just wing it. After all, this is a pre-release and nothing is cast in stone.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 23, 2018
8:22 pm
Frenchy
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Would it be possible to generate a resource world composed mainly of an ocean biome?

July 23, 2018
9:14 pm
LightWarriorK
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We will be SURE to have greater than 50% ocean in the new world. Smile

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
July 27, 2018
5:44 pm
frelling
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More updates. Rabbit hole after rabbit hole; what else is new? Our latest being that certain Spigot/Minecraft resources expected to be available are not available (see SPIGOT-4166). It is not that issues cannot be fixed, but it takes time to make sure that bugs are indeed bugs and figuring out when and how they are happening. The only good news is that it is not our own bug Kiss

Brian and I have been running tests on a local server and things seems to working smoothly, which having said that will probably means that something is going to smack us alongside the head from left field when we get back to testing after dinner.

We are hoping to iron out the last issues with GriefPrevention, which is the only reason why we have not yet push a 1.13dev server out. Having a 1.13dev server available is going to attract some unwanted attention and it would take us more time and effort to manage an access list. Having GP will at least ensure that members can protect their stuff and catch most of the usual griefing actions.

We have also spent more time than expected with OpenBlocks (e.g. elevators and The Wrench). On the one hand, the new Spigot 1.13 API makes it a breeze to rotate and orient blocks with The Wrench. Unfortunately, the "classification" of blocks (e.g Is it a door, a log, a skull, a skull on a wall?) has become more laborious. We must have spent at least two full days, combing over Spigot source code trying to grok the new classification system and adding missing features that were considered essential.

Anyways, just taking the time to vent a little. Getting chow and then back to more fun!

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 29, 2018
10:07 am
LightWarriorK
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Best of luck, Frelling!

As soon as Amidst is working, I'll get us a good 1.13 seed.

For those who are curious, we will NOT moving to a new primary map.  Arda will remain, eternal.  However, remember that parts of Arda may update with 1.13; Ocean Monuments appeared in Arda when we went from 1.7 to 1.8.  

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
July 30, 2018
7:51 pm
Trip6s6i6x
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Was reading the patch notes for 1.13 and noticed this:

"When editing an existing Minecraft world, there is now a new "Optimize World" button, allowing you to update old worlds to a newer format."

I know when we update, usually the new mobs and stuff seem to spawn in automatically (unless you're changing things in the background that we're not seeing in order to allow it lol), but thought this might be worth looking into in regard to future updates as well. From the sound of things, having to recreate worlds to add new blocks may no longer be necessary maybe? (unless I'm reading that Optimize World thing wrong?)

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August 2, 2018
2:57 pm
frelling
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Trip6s6i6x said
Was reading the patch notes for 1.13 and noticed this:

"When editing an existing Minecraft world, there is now a new "Optimize World" button, allowing you to update old worlds to a newer format."

I know when we update, usually the new mobs and stuff seem to spawn in automatically (unless you're changing things in the background that we're not seeing in order to allow it lol), but thought this might be worth looking into in regard to future updates as well. From the sound of things, having to recreate worlds to add new blocks may no longer be necessary maybe? (unless I'm reading that Optimize World thing wrong?)

Oh, really! I did not see that. Is that a single player feature? You are right, we will definitely have to look into that. That is not to say we would abandon the secondary world concepts, since they would still be useful as resource worlds without staff having to deal with aggressive plumbing and mining of the main world.

LWK, can you put that on you Things To Do list and flag me when we get close to a full conversion?

We did intend to test various update techniques on Arda to see what type of effect they would have, but if Minecraft itself can do that, it would be a wonderful time saver.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
August 2, 2018
3:25 pm
frelling
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More updates. I might be rehashing things previously mentioned, but I need to vent a little :) The good news is that so far the 1.13 developer release has not created unsolvable or hard challenges. The challenges tend toward an overwhelming amount of minutia and requiring excruciating attention to detail. All of our plugins, except Shoppe, have been updates, and we are going over them once more with a fine toothed comb.

We have patched several of our third-party plugins and submit changes to their respective developers. Essentials is still a little flaky, but we can live with it. McMMO is being actively update, but we have not had a chance to test it yet. Although DynMap revision was bumped up to a beta, there have been no further updates specific to 1.13. Not much has happened on the Multiverse front, but we do not believe it needs much updating. We will know more after testing it.

The crux of everything so far has been GriefPrevention. I cannot find out if updates are in the works. We took a stab at updating it ourselves dealing with a lot of material-based changes. But we got frustrated, twice now, because the code is ugly. GP is in need of a major refactoring.

This got us to thinking about using Residence. Residence is currently in beta as 1.13 updates are added; and, it better be given that it is advertised as a premium plugin, although free versions are also available. Sadly, Residence also suffers from code bloat and ugliness.

I believe that the long-term solution will be for us to hunker down and write JcProtector from scratch and merge in features that we like from both GriefPrevention and Residence. But that will take some time.

We are going heavily medicate ourselves tonight (i.e. open the wet bar) and give another try to update GriefPrevention without throwing our hands up in the air and saying "F**k it". But if that does happen, then we will go with what we have and push out a 1.13 test server late Friday night.

Same rules apply to the 1.13 test server, the world of which is named Telgar, as with the 1.12.2 server. Same amount of cash, claim blocks, etc. More to follow.

Spigot has been working very well, and is still being updated at a fervent pace with tweaks, bug fixes, etc. 

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
August 2, 2018
9:47 pm
LightWarriorK
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frelling said

LWK, can you put that on you Things To Do list and flag me when we get close to a full conversion?

Sure!

Good luck!  

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
August 2, 2018
11:15 pm
frelling
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Well dang, I am glad one of us was smart (hint: it was not me). Brian checked the GriefPrevention repo's pull requests and found that someone had offered a 1.13 update. The GP's author apparently is busy for awhile, so we pulled a copy of the PR down from the contributor and it appears to work like a charm.

We are putting it through its paces and making some custom tweaks so that GP and Residence do not step on each others toes. Looks like we will start putting together a test server a bit sooner (or maybe we should just go get some more sleep, TBD).

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
November 14, 2018
11:14 pm
frelling
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Greeting all,

This is just a quick post to let everyone know that my heart is still beating. I had promised LWK to post a more detailed update last week, but in normal form, I was side-tracked by other issues.

In short, we (Mudwog and I) are working on two key tasks: 1) getting Shoppe ready for prime time; and, 2) getting an Arda ready for an update once (1) is ready.

Currently, I am heads deep in Spigot item metadata structures and fixing a few bugs therein. The work done therewith is crucial not only for Shoppe, but also other item/inventory related tasks. However, rather than writing our own fix, these issues are at the core of Spigot and require changes to it.

Unfortunately, the default Spigot build environment is not playing well with creating such fixes and changes that can be properly submitted to Spigot as pull requests. Thus, I am working on documenting the process and fixing/augmenting Spigot's BuildTools to make this problem go away and provide information for those occasions, since time will erode my memory of the details with other stuff. I hope that by the end of the week, I can get back on track to working on Shoppe.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
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