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Mod Question
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March 3, 2016
9:41 pm
AssultTank
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Knight

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Just wanted to make sure it was okay to use this mod as it does add the ability to modify the view on the client.

http://www.planetminecraft.com.....chematica/

 

The purpose I want to use it for is to overlay a hologram of my Airship as a template while I build it so that I don't have to go back and forth between layer by layer photos and the game. 

 

As far as I can tell, it works by taking a schematic you have and overlaying it onto the world. I'm not sure if it can be used for xray though, which is why I wanted to get approval.

April 4, 2016
8:43 am
kooms1983
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I would also like an answer to this, I have used said mod on single player and it makes building a whole lot simpler. 

May 26, 2016
11:04 pm
frelling
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Apologies for the long overdue reply, I'm just emerging from a very, very long rebuild of VC plugins. I see no problem using this mod, since it is strict a client mod and does not affect the server. Matter of fact, Its pretty cool and could have save me a ton of work on some builds Wink

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
July 6, 2016
6:19 pm
LightWarriorK
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As a clarification, please note that any use of the mod's Print Mode is NOT allowed and would violate the rules of the server.

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
December 11, 2016
4:42 pm
frelling
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This just happened to catch my eye again. I do plan on testing this mod extensively. Chances are that I will also use this mod extensively Smileon some of my larger builds. As far as I understand, Print Mode will only auto-place blocks in a 3x3x3 region IF the player has the blocks in their inventory (i.e. no spawning).

For the purposes of eliminating lengthy rule interpretation and questions, that future members may eventually raise, I'll address this now.

While there is no specific rule that prohibits the use of auto-placing functions, they do provide an unfair advantage over other players. We want to ensure as much as possible that players' creations are a direct representation of the blood, sweat, and tears that they put into it. It is the same reason why we don't spawn items or allow the use of other building tools such as WorldEdit.

Our desire is to keep rules at a minimum. Rest assured that if this does become a problem, a rule will follow quickly. The good news is that the plugin provides us with the means to disable certain features and we will update our ModCop plugin to disable Print Mode.

Let me offer a personal case study that demonstrated our desire to be fair.

A few years back after I expanded Vetronia from a 6Kx6K map to a 10Kx10K map, I was working feverishly to expand our main railways into new territories. Even though I could use WorldEdit features, each block was placed individually. Even so, I can falter at times.

After having built dozens upon dozens of railway towers over a period of 6 or more hours, I was faced with building the last one. I was tired, needed sleep, and wanted to be done. Rather than building it, I cloned it. In my mind I justified that a build constructed 99% by hand and 1% by other means was good enough to be considered legit. After all, I did remove the corresponding blocks from my inventory.

The next morning, guilt settled in right after I woke. Now that I was well-rested and had some time away from that grueling task, the justification I made didn't seem as clear. A wrestle with my conscience quickly terminated the justification. I logged on that evening, cleared the tower with WorldEdit to undo the clone, and rebuilt it by hand. I didn't compensate myself for the blocks I had disposed. It was the penalty I forced myself to pay for my moment of weakness.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
December 15, 2016
5:07 pm
PhilosopherPhil
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so it seems to me that the issue is that this mod seems to mostly work but is slightly outside the realm of fair gameplay. I am not sure if this could work but is it possible that we could take the mod as it is and just remove the autoplace function all together by editing the code and then release a modified version of the mod to be used for the players on this server. that way we can keep the usefulness that it brings for planning. Again I am just offering this based on observation of this conversation. I haven't used this mod before so I do not know if this is possible or not

"If you don't know where you're going, then any road will do."
December 16, 2016
2:07 am
Mr_Macintosh
Nashville
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I think it may already be in the rules. As quoted from the "Server Rules & Info Section":

"Bots, hacks, mods, mechanisms, and such that circumvent our AFK system or automate gameplay will not be tolerated."

 

That is, if you want to consider it automating gameplay. That being said, the other features of this mod, such as the ability to see how many of each block are in a build (and to realize you need way more of something than you thought...) and to layout templates if you're trying to build many identical structures, are very useful. I would go as far as saying that it's one of the most celever mods out there.

However, it's good to know the print feature can be combatted with server-side components. 

If we don't study the mistakes of the future, we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.

December 16, 2016
9:36 am
frelling
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PhilosopherPhil said
so it seems to me that the issue is that this mod seems to mostly work but is slightly outside the realm of fair gameplay. I am not sure if this could work but is it possible that we could take the mod as it is and just remove the autoplace function all together by editing the code and then release a modified version of the mod to be used for the players on this server. that way we can keep the usefulness that it brings for planning. Again I am just offering this based on observation of this conversation. I haven't used this mod before so I do not know if this is possible or not

Hehe, you must have missed this

The good news is that the plugin provides us with the means to disable certain features and we will update our ModCop plugin to disable Print Mode.

Unfortunately, modifying the code directly, while possible, would not prevent abuse. Hehe, modifying client mod code would certainly abuse me; client mods and the libraries they depend on are notoriously fickle.

Should we not be able to disable the Print feature, we may have to explicitly define a rule that prohibit Print Mode use under a "Mods Dos & Don'ts". It is clearly noticeable when Print Mode is used, which is something staff and other players can witness. If not, we could spent some time to define another protocol detector to recognize its use and add it to ModCop. That hardest part of that is to tweak the detector to minimize the number of false positives.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
December 16, 2016
9:43 am
frelling
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Mr_Macintosh said
I think it may already be in the rules. As quoted from the "Server Rules & Info Section":

"Bots, hacks, mods, mechanisms, and such that circumvent our AFK system or automate gameplay will not be tolerated."

That is, if you want to consider it automating gameplay. 

Yes, it could certainly fall under that rule, though we'd need to put a disclaimer that headings (i.e. Unattended Gameplay) are only for descriptive purposes and do not expand or restrict the scope of rules. I can just see someone arguing that it is legal because it is not Unattended Game play. I only mention this so we all can chuckle knowing that someone would eventually bring it up Kiss

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
December 17, 2016
6:59 pm
Frenchy
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Should we not be able to disable the Print feature, we may have to explicitly define a rule that prohibit Print Mode use under a "Mods Dos & Don'ts". It is clearly noticeable when Print Mode is used, which is something staff and other players can witness. If not, we could spent some time to define another protocol detector to recognize its use and add it to ModCop. That hardest part of that is to tweak the detector to minimize the number of false positives.

My coding expertise extends to basic Python but from what I've observed of the Schematica print function is that it seamlessly switches between blocks used to build. In this case I don't think using a system to simply detect the placement speed of blocks would work, but if you could detect not only the frequency of placed blocks and at the same time the diversity of blocks used, maybe that could clear some of the false-positive that could result?

Unfortunately there is a pyrite lining to this function because Schematica offers the possibility to change block placement speed, as well as placement radius, which means that a player could in fact reduce the placement speed significantly enough such that the function would no longer determine accurately between a fast builder and someone using Schematica.

December 18, 2016
3:07 pm
frelling
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Frenchy said

My coding expertise extends to basic Python but from what I've observed of the Schematica print function is that it seamlessly switches between blocks used to build. In this case I don't think using a system to simply detect the placement speed of blocks would work, but if you could detect not only the frequency of placed blocks and at the same time the diversity of blocks used, maybe that could clear some of the false-positive that could result?

Unfortunately there is a pyrite lining to this function because Schematica offers the possibility to change block placement speed, as well as placement radius, which means that a player could in fact reduce the placement speed significantly enough such that the function would no longer determine accurately between a fast builder and someone using Schematica.

 So true! That's what makes writing detectors so much fun and a pain at the same time. Nor, could one be reliable enough as a basis for automated actions other than to give moderators a heads up that something might be amiss.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
December 19, 2016
1:17 am
PhilosopherPhil
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is there a way you could detect if they are using the mod and if they are placing blocks in what seems like a robotic fashion cuase trust me everyone has moments while building where their movements falter a little. an auto placer would not. 

"If you don't know where you're going, then any road will do."
December 19, 2016
1:20 am
PhilosopherPhil
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sorry for the second post I just had another idea while eating skittles could we also maybe have a forum thread where people who are using the mod state that they are just so if some one seems amiss you can check if they had to mod have installed the mod. just another thought just trying to help give you all the ideas I can for this cuase I would really love to use this mod as well for planning my projects

"If you don't know where you're going, then any road will do."
December 19, 2016
1:54 pm
Trip6s6i6x
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I had a whole multi-paragraph post written out, scrapped it all because it drifted off and stopped making sense after awhile. 

I'll just say it would be nice to be able to use a schematics mod like this, with or without the print function. And I hope in the end we see it allowed here.

Don't Panic -Douglas Adams
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