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Suggestions based on 1.9 play testing
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March 13, 2016
3:24 am
AssultTank
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So I've spent extensive time on the 1.9 server, and I have a few suggestions for Arda based on said time.

1) Currently we do not have access to /home, /spawn, or /sethome. Now this works fairly well for the End as it is in 1.8 and earlier, however with the End being expanded, it is going to be extremely tedious, frustrating, and aggravating to navigate and collect resources. With a server, you aren't going to have the option of only needing to find the first or second end city, getting your Elytra, and leaving. You're going to have to explore, and the End is very difficult to navigate. As such, I would suggest allowing the use of at least /sethome and /spawn. This will allow us to explore the End extensively and get back out without a lot of frustration. It took me about an hour to go about 3k blocks.

2) The current End is extremely small, and doesn't take up a lot of space on the server HDD, and I understand the need for a limit. However my recommendation would be to account for the 2k x 2k area in the middle that will not generate the new islands when determining this size limit. (First islands generate at 1000 blocks from the center.)

2a) Now I've found 6 Elytras on the 1.9 server. I know there are more. My current average is that 1 in about every 10 End Cities I've found has the End Ship that contains an Elytra. For a 3000x3000 map, I estimate approximately 9000 generation locations for End Cities assuming uniform distribution. From what I can tell, the generation algorithm is not uniform in distribution of End Cities. They tend to be more clustered around certain points, which for selfish reasons I don't want to disclose the way I think they work at the moment. Applying the algorithm I've been using to predict End City generation, I estimate approximately 4000 End City generation locations in the current 1.9 test world. Of those 4000, I would anticipate at least 2000 of them failing due to lack of island. Another 500 or so will fail due to the terrain of the island being unsuitable, usually too sloped. This leaves about 1500 End Cities, or using my current average, ~150 Elytras. If you increase to 4000x4000, the potential number goes up to about 9,600 possible spawn locations (~46k if uniform). Assume the same percentage of failed generations, and you're looking at about 6,000 End Cities and about ~600 Elytras.

Now my calculations could be way off here, I am only guessing based on patterns I've seen across 3 different Ends, but I have been able to predict where additional End Cities are based on finding one, so I can't be too far off.

3) Weather in Arda. Currently we have no weather in Arda, and no reason to implement weather in Arda. 1.9 changes that with Skeleton Traps. These will allow Skeleton Horses to become available, and I know players will want them. I would propose, if possible, scheduled weather events maybe 2-4 times a day. This will allow players to have a chance to hunt these horses while still maintaining the excellent server environment that we have now.

March 13, 2016
10:47 am
AdmlAdama
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Math FTW. great points Assult, especially regarding homes. 

Regarding the weather i think the resource works for most things like the skele trap drops but then again the skeleton horses can't be brought through a portal. 

Another consideration (if possible with spigot) would be to have a certain island/area designated where weather can occur so it doesn't affect all of Arda. 

March 13, 2016
2:10 pm
Pauli90
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Well, about

1) On the test server we do have /sethome and /home in The End. At least for me, it works fine…

2) Yeah, a 4k x 4k End would be fine. Unlike the Overworld or The Nether The End consists mainly of void, so it should not take too many server resources to have a bigger End. And 600 elytras for the server should be enough, however, I see one issue: tp by compass which is a sponsor perk. Of course, sponsors deserve some advantages, but traveling through The End by compass might be too advantageous (by default it’s either using the portals, building bridges from one island to another one or throwing ender pearls which is not without risk). It can be frustrating for non-sponsors, if every settlement they finally discover are already looted. So, I’d suggest to disable the compass in the Arda End (it’s even more fun to travel naturally through The End).

3) As I know, skeleton riders spawn from skeleton traps, if a player comes near, independently on the weather, but within 15 minutes after the traps spawned. The traps however only spawn with a small chance during a thunderstorm. Maybe, the spawn rate of certain mobs can be modified so that there’s always a very small weather-independent chance for these traps to spawn. Otherwise, skeleton riders would only spawn in the resource worlds which would be sufficient as well in my opinion. I mean: How often would you go actively for a skeleton riders hunt?

Back in my day zombies dropped feathers!
March 13, 2016
2:11 pm
LightWarriorK
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I will state what I think, but know that this is not final and certainly subject to being completely different.

1) I do not think this will be happening.  VC is Legit, and while we make things easier for Arda with homes, and even in the Nether, we have always intended the End to be completely pure Minecraft. I don't even most of my moderator powers in the End, certainly nothing that would give me an advantage in the End.  In completely Vanilla MC, yes, traversing the End is difficult.  And yes, that's how we like it. Smile

2) I'm sure the size of the End for the final release will be sufficient for our playerbase.

3) We have discussed how to integrate weather into Arda before, but it's not simple.  Essentials does not allow for custom weather settings.  We can only set it to "On" or "Off."  Scheduling would be kinda lame because then everyone would know when it'd be coming.  My preference is to be able to set the % of weather to something that would satisfy those who want weather, while not being too annoying to those who don't.

Thanks for the work and the math! I'm sure it'll be helpful as frelling and mudwog work on updating us.

"Awake, oh man, and be wise." -Thoth
March 13, 2016
4:40 pm
PhilosopherPhil
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I have recently been to the end on the 1.9 world one thing I would like to say is that while I don't object to keeping the end vanilla I think that there should at least be some rules regarding player conduct in the end now that there are generated cities and more loot. the main reason I advocate some rules is because as it is now a no mans land I going to other islands is not only dangerous due to the vanilla parts but if players can openly attack you it's likely the best tooled and skilled players will be able to hoard all the good stuff and the less capable players will have a very difficult time getting anything at all. however I do think homes in the end would be nice since it would allow players to not have to travel long distances just to get back to an end city or a place where they were.

"If you don't know where you're going, then any road will do."
March 13, 2016
9:07 pm
Trip6s6i6x
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I'm not gonna make a call between the haves and the have nots except to say that those who are equipped better should naturally be able to handle the End better due to the assets they've brought to the table with them. However, Phil's concerns about pvp are quite valid.

It's well understood that both the Nether and End have always been full, unrestricted pvp. And this works fine for the Nether. There's also one big difference between the Nether and the End: You can build a portal randomly anywhere you want in the 30000x30000 block map of Arda and be transported to the equivalent area in the Nether - you're quite simply not going to just randomly run into someone else in the Nether in the first place, not unless you live close by others in Arda or you've gone out of your way to build a portal close enough to someone else's in order to intentionally tap into theirs when traveling over. You're unlikely to be caught off guard and unprepared there.

With the End -- and please let me know if the following has changed with the addition of 1.9 -- the minecraft wiki ( http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/The_End ) tells me that regardless of what stronghold the player uses to go there, where they will appear in the End is "X=100, Y=49, Z=0, toward west (negative X) on top of a 5×5×1 obsidian platform". A single point of entrance for everyone = problem.

Things Mayhem would do with this sweet nectar of a choke point (and would not be banned for doing due to pvp being unrestricted in the End): If the platform is floating over the void, take a bow with knockback, find good positioning and wait --> fling people off the platform as they spawn in. If the platform is not floating over the void, encase the area around it in obsidian, add water or lava above it (whichever you prefer) so it flows down on top of whoever spawns in. Or fill the 5x5 spawn area with stacks of gravel; every time someone spawns in, 3 layers of it are removed automatically (by spawn mechanics) but the rest drops down on top of them - cheap, easy-to-build automatic suffocation machine that could take care of quite a few people before it's all cleared away.

Trolling could become an issue without some form of protection around this area (especially considering how active this area is going to become after the server update). Though with as on-top as the admins have always been on VC, I would assume there's also probably something in the works to address this possibility already...

Don't Panic -Douglas Adams
March 13, 2016
9:36 pm
frelling
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Wonderful suggestions, comments, and discussions. I will admit that I haven’t read them thoroughly, but keep them coming. I'll throw my two cents for some feedback. Now that The End has a bigger purpose and is much larger, I agree that rules and other related matters should be revisited.

As AssaultTank mentioned, The End world files don’t take much space on the server since land masses are very sparse. I'd hazard a guess that an End having the same size as Arda would take less disk space than one of our secondary worlds. At the onset, I would think that a 3K x 3K size, which is the same size as the SR or OR, would be sufficient. Even so, we eventually will need some manner of replenishing resources that have been looted. I'd hate to see player search 50 cities to find nothing.

The End does present some navigation problems and I would like to see reasonable and creative means for handling it. For example, one consideration is to allow players to create a limited number of portals on their own to link end islands together. There are a few more hair-brained ideas, but it all comes done to staying within the vision that Mojang had for The End and something that is not administratively or technically complex and not OP at the same time.

At this point, I can say with certainty that the official 1.9 update will have the same restrictions as our regular End. In other words, no sponsor perks, no popping in and out with teleportation, etc. Now, before members start flaming me, that is just the initial condition. I am certain that we will change rules as we've had time to consider issues and solve them with due diligence rather than just what happens to pop in our minds first. It is always easier to relax rules or add capabilities than to tighten rules and nerf/remove capabilities.

I have nothing to add on the weather issue as it is the first that I was made aware of it.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
March 14, 2016
12:01 pm
tedisvet
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One thing I noticed is that when I enter the nether I always get set on fire, I do not know what causes this problem. I have tried going in with and without gear and with an empty backpack. Also I have tried to remove all fires in a radius of the portal. None of these seem to have fixed the problem. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Another thing is that when you respawn the dragon, no new dragon egg is spawned, so for everyone who has one now and likes its rarity; it probably wont become more common (if it stays the vanilla way). I guess am happy about it, would be a shame if the dragon egg would start popping up over all of arda, but then again, it's an awesome decorational item!

"Pants? You mean leg prisons."

March 14, 2016
4:33 pm
AssultTank
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tedisvet said
One thing I noticed is that when I enter the nether I always get set on fire, I do not know what causes this problem. I have tried going in with and without gear and with an empty backpack. Also I have tried to remove all fires in a radius of the portal. None of these seem to have fixed the problem. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Another thing is that when you respawn the dragon, no new dragon egg is spawned, so for everyone who has one now and likes its rarity; it probably wont become more common (if it stays the vanilla way). I guess am happy about it, would be a shame if the dragon egg would start popping up over all of arda, but then again, it's an awesome decorational item!

The egg not spawning on subsequent kills is vanilla mechanics, I tested offline to confirm.

 

As for the fire, I haven't had that happen.

March 15, 2016
10:41 am
Trip6s6i6x
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tedisvet said
One thing I noticed is that when I enter the nether I always get set on fire, I do not know what causes this problem. I have tried going in with and without gear and with an empty backpack. Also I have tried to remove all fires in a radius of the portal. None of these seem to have fixed the problem. Is anyone else experiencing this?

We tested this a little more last night. Looks like there are at least 2 portals in the area in the main world that link to the same portal on the nether side. When going through the portal on the surface to the nether, everything is fine. When going through the underground portal (Ted's portal), you do indeed catch fire as you appear in the nether. It's just that one portal underground that seems to cause it though.. which is odd.

We didn't try moving his portal to a slightly different spot and retesting... I suppose that would be next logical step.

Don't Panic -Douglas Adams
March 15, 2016
3:24 pm
tedisvet
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Trip6s6i6x said

tedisvet said
One thing I noticed is that when I enter the nether I always get set on fire, I do not know what causes this problem. I have tried going in with and without gear and with an empty backpack. Also I have tried to remove all fires in a radius of the portal. None of these seem to have fixed the problem. Is anyone else experiencing this?

We tested this a little more last night. Looks like there are at least 2 portals in the area in the main world that link to the same portal on the nether side. When going through the portal on the surface to the nether, everything is fine. When going through the underground portal (Ted's portal), you do indeed catch fire as you appear in the nether. It's just that one portal underground that seems to cause it though.. which is odd.

We didn't try moving his portal to a slightly different spot and retesting... I suppose that would be next logical step.

First, thanks for testing this with me!

I have just broken the portal and created it again, the issue was solved! ^^

"Pants? You mean leg prisons."

March 15, 2016
4:29 pm
frelling
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First, thanks for testing this with me!

I have just broken the portal and created it again, the issue was solved! ^^

Dang, I hate it when problems just go away. It means that they are not gone; instead they are just lurking to wait for another day Kiss

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
March 17, 2016
4:19 pm
WallyBean
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My minor suggestions, feedback in regards to 1.9.  With all the potential for trolling and conflict/drama pvp in the end could cause, perhaps it would be better to make it a no pvp zone til such time as people clamoring for it or can explain how the entrance won't make a prime camping spot to kill people as soon as they enter etc.  

 

I wasn't aware the arda map had its own end, I thought the only end was thru the SR/OR map.  It seems to me that if each new resource world gets a new end to go with it, then we won't have issues with items being finite, but perhaps very rare for stretches of time.  I am a masochist on minecraft and I like some things being rare, I am not sold or keen on the idea of everyone flying around with elytra. Forcing people to play vanilla in the End is cool in my book, will it be a hassle and tough to go plunder the 50 end cities before everyone else? Yup, and maybe it should be so that more than a couple people can experience doing that and ruin the fun for other within a couple days of 1.9 going live.  

 

Weather: Far as I know there is weather in resource worlds, so why do we need it in Arda?  I don't know much about skeleton traps etc full disclosure but can't you just hunt skeleton horses on the resource worlds?  I like Arda without weather personally, plus I am all for keeping the main world as lag free as possible.  If we didn't have resource worlds then I would be on board with having it and some other suggestions but luckily we do have "new" maps from time to time with all features rolling.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -unknown
March 17, 2016
7:56 pm
AssultTank
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WallyBean said
Weather: Far as I know there is weather in resource worlds, so why do we need it in Arda?  I don't know much about skeleton traps etc full disclosure but can't you just hunt skeleton horses on the resource worlds?  I like Arda without weather personally, plus I am all for keeping the main world as lag free as possible.  If we didn't have resource worlds then I would be on board with having it and some other suggestions but luckily we do have "new" maps from time to time with all features rolling.

The issue with the skeleton traps is that horses can't travel between the resource world and Arda, this means all horses tamed in a resource world will disappear with the reset. I also agree that we need to keep the main world as lag free as possible, but I also know that people will want Skeleton Horses in Arda. 😛

 

As for the end, it's possible to keep it while still resetting the resource world.

March 18, 2016
12:00 am
frelling
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I wasn't aware the arda map had its own end, I thought the only end was thru the SR/OR map.

There is only 1 End. End Portals in any world, if enabled, will teleport everyone to the same End.

As far weather in Arda is concerned, we need it from time to such that snow biomes regenerate snow. But because it is primarily a cosmetic feature, we only want to enable weather for a limited time. As far as it being a resource hog, that is primarily a client issue with non-optimum graphics settings. Weather particle effects can choke a low-end or mis-configured GPU.

The issue with the skeleton traps is that horses can't travel between the resource world and Arda, this means all horses tamed in a resource world will disappear with the reset.

Thank you for bring this up. We will be looking at adding the ability to move critters between worlds.

As for the end, it's possible to keep it while still resetting the resource world.

Yes. The End to which everyone is teleported is the Arda End. The only time it was reset was when we manually removed the worlds files to force a regeneration. In short, the End will not go away because of a change in the resource world. And if as it seems, that the End will be more permanent, we will refrain from resetting. Think of it more in the terms of the Nether. If futures updates add features that are require a reset, then and only then would that happen.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experiences of others, are also remarkable for their disinclination to do so. - D. Adams
March 18, 2016
5:42 am
tedisvet
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Frelling said

I wasn't aware the arda map had its own end, I thought the only end was thru the SR/OR map.

There is only 1 End. End Portals in any world, if enabled, will teleport everyone to the same End.

As far weather in Arda is concerned, we need it from time to such that snow biomes regenerate snow. But because it is primarily a cosmetic feature, we only want to enable weather for a limited time. As far as it being a resource hog, that is primarily a client issue with non-optimum graphics settings. Weather particle effects can choke a low-end or mis-configured GPU.

Weather can be quite a pain and I always turn it off via Optifine, once you have installed Optifine it's just a matter of pressing a button. I understand that not everyone has the know how to install Optifine, but I think that for everyone that has trouble running minecraft with weather turned on Optifine is a welcome addition. This "solution" would allow each player to choose for themselves if they want weather turned on or off. 

To give players without the knowledge on how to install Optifine (& toggle weather particles) I would be more than happy to create a detailed and easy to understand video tutorial to post on the forums, so people can be redirected with their questions to this topic/video.

I think this would be the most flexible solution, to give each player the option to do as they please. It might not be the most user friendly solution, since it requires a setup. I am curious to hear what the staff thinks of this idea. Whether they like it or not!

Option to turn off the particle effects:

http://imgur.com/HgzBdms

"Pants? You mean leg prisons."

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